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| Monty |
 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:04 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 24
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I was just in my local video game store and I wondered about the price I was willing to pay for a game and what would constitute value for whatever I bought. I shrugged (as is my habit) at many of the console games raking up on average £40 and proclaim that it is too much money for me; largely, I suppose, why I don’t own a console. I guess I usually buy games once the hype and the price has dropped but usually £15 seems to be the most expensive game I have bought for many a year. Being a student though one must be thrifty, but even beyond the financial constraints I ask would I if I could? Naturally I support independent developers over the larger commercial ones, even still £40 to me is a chunk of wallop.
On the question of value does anyone believe that a game that takes you 20 hours to complete is worth more than one that takes 2, and by that logic would pay more? The obvious argument would be that it depended on the experience but even so I begin to wonder about the experience in both options. I know there is this tendency in games to run for at least 15 hours but the amount of this that is mindless hoop jumping and the amount that is genuinely fun and engaging makes me wonder if many games are really just 2 hour games with 13 added on; filla if you will. If this is the case what is wrong with a game being the length of a film; you play, you reflect, you put it away, you move on. I wonder if the repetition of hoop jumping is somewhat part of the appeal in an Andy Warhol sort of way.
Some games and genres lend themselves better to longer play than others and some (I’m thinking of those awful Massively Multiplayer Games) that seem to exist as black holes to lives and wallets the world throughout. Using my brother as a test subject as someone who has played the Star Wars Galaxies for 4 years now, in a capacity that I can only describe as a full time job, I investigated. I enquired if he actually enjoys the game and he tells me he does, I ask him what he did on it today and he says he doesn’t know. Does anyone her play those games? Can anyone elaborate?
So to this I would like to ask you all, how much would you pay and what to you gives a game value. I know it makes me sound a little crass asking this but since it is a hobby I thought I’d give it a place.
Monty |
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| Mayar |
| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:09 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: On the Forum, adding his Mustard to anything in his interest (no art or anything that may offend me)
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40$ is equal 60 euro i think... But its nevertheless to much... Therefore, let me introduce a small think called torrent...
Mitja "Mayar/Dojci/Noob" Rupnik,
Dr. of G33kology and Gaming Sciences... |
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| Blackfeathr |
| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:15 pm |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 949
Location: In the box under your stairs...
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I think most of us prefer the legal way of getting games. 
And $40 is equal to 31 Euro, Mayar. Their money is more than ours.
Im sorry I can't contribute more to the topic, I havent bought enough games to truly judge a value :c |
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| Mayar |
| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:23 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: On the Forum, adding his Mustard to anything in his interest (no art or anything that may offend me)
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Uhhh.... I dont follow the trade courses...
But... we love games, so lets say, if they charge a reasonable price (20 euro), then we can get talking... |
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| Ymedron |
| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:24 pm |
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Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 176
Location: Finland
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Hmm. I've played WoW some... And I find it fun, only though if I have friends to play with. I don't raid, or PVP, or even try to level that much. It just is fun to roleplay visually with someone. And of course speak about things in the game.
To me, the game doesn't have to last too long, as long as you can play it again. For example, Tetris is basically a ten minute long game. Then you play it again, and again through the levels. Final Fantasy 7 may take several hours, but if you remember the plot well, you may not want to touch it after that, until you're either forgotten the plot or want to try out some new things (tho RPG:s rarely allow for experimenting...)
Oblivion is somewhere between, as it is a RPG, but also has some elements of a first-person shooter, and because you are able to mod it, the game never ends, in theory. :3
So I would say, 50 € isn't too much for a game, you are going to enjoy for a long time. |
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| Michael |
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:15 am |
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Site Administrator
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 8065
Location: Gent, Belgium
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I would like it if all games were priced the same. Then you could just choose based on quality. But that would be unfair considering the widely different budgets that games are made for.
Still, in other media, that distinction is not made. A Blairwitch Project DVD costs the same as The Matrix. Books ditto. The price of these media is irrelevant to the production budget or the time they take to complete.
This is probably because other media are truly mass market and games are just a (mega-)niche.
Anyway, I still like to play Guild Wars now and again for the sole purpose of emptying my brain entirely. Sometimes, that can be pleasant. |
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| Mayar |
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:08 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: On the Forum, adding his Mustard to anything in his interest (no art or anything that may offend me)
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| I play many games to clear or inspire me... |
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| Monty |
| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:41 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 24
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That is an interesting point. It always stuns me to see a copy of War and Peace straddled with the same price as a size 0 novelette. I wonder though how the systems of creating these different mediums differ in the development/publishing respect and how close the games making model reflects it.
One thing that strikes me is that if you look at the top 10 games list on whatever major games site on any platform the only games there are either sequels or are part of a franchise. Can anybody think of many films that have good sequels? The idea of a sequel in a film to me can only exist to cash in on a film’s success and milk it for what it is worth bedamned to the quality. Some genres lend themselves to a second helping more than others, super hero films spring to mind. But in this case usually there has already been a backlog of material and a fan base to match.
But in gaming terms with a sequel, you seem to get the game you played before, with some new bells and whistles plus a story. I read on one forum the views of a host of fans who were boycotting the new Prince of Persia game because it was taking a different route to its previous offering. Are gamers really like this? Do they feel they own the game rather than just a copy? I do find gamers one of the strangest breed of creature on the planet, but do I consider myself one?
P.S. Mayar I must confess that I do use torrents but with a view to buying the game if I like and play it enough. The trouble is if it is a short game with no replay value then I finish it feeling guilty because obviously I won’t buy it. Also the amount of games companies going bust or being bought out makes me think I should do my bit. |
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| Michael |
| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:18 am |
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Site Administrator
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 8065
Location: Gent, Belgium
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Monty wrote: But in gaming terms with a sequel, you seem to get the game you played before, with some new bells and whistles plus a story. I read on one forum the views of a host of fans who were boycotting the new Prince of Persia game because it was taking a different route to its previous offering. Are gamers really like this? Do they feel they own the game rather than just a copy? I do find gamers one of the strangest breed of creature on the planet, but do I consider myself one?
I have been wondering about this as well. So much so that I'm considering writing a column about it for the local Eurogamer. So your insights are welcome.
Gamers often strike me as very conservative people. To the point of being reactionary. The themes of the games that they like are the same kinds of themes that political conservatives care about: heroism, military strength, honour, "might makes right", the battle for superiority against all other species and races, fighting together in a group for the glory of the fatherland or an ideology, etc. Which is ironic because those same conservative politicians are often explicitly anti-games.
How can gamers, who use some of the most advanced technology on this planet, be so old-fahsioned in their belief systems and attitudes? Why aren't they more rebellious? Why are the games they most admire, the ones created by the establishment and big money corporations? Even in the indie art game scene, hero number one, Rod Humble, is the executive prodcuer of one of the most commercially succesful games coming from the biggest publisher (The Sims/EA).
Is it because games force you to follow rules so much, give you pleasure for doing as you're told?
(obeying the law and respecting authority tends to be a big issue with political conservatives) |
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| Monty |
| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:37 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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It seems to me that the bulk of the gaming audience remains as being under 35 and male rife with those older traditional masculine overtones. Even those who wouldn’t strike you as being such seem to be transformed in the process of playing. In view of traditional games, such as competitive sports, this is reflected quite well and demonstrates all the things that you mentioned:
Quote: *heroism, military strength, honour, "might makes right", the battle for superiority against all other species and races, fighting together in a group for the glory of the fatherland or an ideology, etc.*
The same way that sports mentality hasn’t changed (to give a time frame: Ever) I don’t think that this audience will either, I think those issues are more connected to gender and society than through games. In order for the market to become more diverse I think it is too much to ask the current audience to change but for the market to widen and to be more inclusive. Sadly enthusiastic hobbyists often end up being the biggest elitists on the planet.
The Sims is an interesting case to look at for me because it opened up the industry to a whole new audience who would never have even touched a game before. What makes The Sims stand out is the complete lack of competition in the genre. When something is that popular there is usually a bandwagon the length of the Great Wall of China to cash in; here, nothing. Have they got it right so absolutely that nobody would dare try? Now all these years on, the third instalment looming, gaming shelves packed with add-on packs, (including, I hasten to add, an Ikea one) The Sims seems to be an institution unto itself. But even though the audience is new I can’t help thinking that in terms of wanting the same thing they pair up with under 35 males perfectly.
In regards to your mentioning law and order there is something to that comment. However, the types of games criticised in the media are often those that involve transgressing on societies boundaries. Those games often end up being the most popular, GTAIV being the best example, which highlights a certain level of anarchism… well at least a no consequences what if scenario.
The gaming audience are underlined by there want for repetition but with an added ante on top just so they feel like the experience is new. Drawing on whatever pre computer game you like you are always forced to adhere to very strict rule system; except, of course, for make believe.
I often wonder what would happen if Lara Croft would turn to the player and say something like “I believe feminism and feminists should be collected unto a single identity.” What do you think the reaction in the gaming community would be?
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| Michael |
| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:36 am |
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Site Administrator
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 8065
Location: Gent, Belgium
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Your reference to sports is probably correct. Sports fans, too, often demonstrate an inclination towards some form of patriotism or even fascism (skinhead hooligans e.g.) and definitely a strong belief in the desire to win at all costs (preferably while staying within the law). A noble defeat for the sake of harmony or a compromise of some kind is not an option for sports fans. Many sports seem a stylized form of warfare.
There have been attempts at imitating The Sims, much like Grand Theft Auto -another successful game that stands out by having no rivals. In both cases, the imitators seem to have failed to understand what makes those games appealing and especially what makes them appealing to a non hardcore audience (the people who make those millions of sales). Much like many in their core audience, game developers seem to have macho streak that prevents them from being really good designers.
Grand Theft Auto, by the way, is not as anarchistic as it may appear. For one thing, committing crimes always risks a response from the police, the FBI or the military. It's very difficult to get away with serious crimes in Grand Theft Auto. On top of that, even on the wrong side of the law, in GTA, there's rules to obey and hierarchies to respect, set by the ruling criminals.
Monty wrote: I often wonder what would happen if Lara Croft would turn to the player and say something like “I believe feminism and feminists should be collected unto a single identity.”
That would be great!  |
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| Mayar |
| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:36 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: On the Forum, adding his Mustard to anything in his interest (no art or anything that may offend me)
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All of the big publishers (EA, Blizzard, Activison, Ubisoft) are "nuddeling out" the concepts of good games...
I want to work for Ubisoft...
P.S. Lara Croft isnt a feminist... She woudnt wear such clothing then... or at least some more...
AND also... GAMERS WOULD TEAR THE DESIGNER IN SMALL TINY PIECES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REALLY SMALL PEACES...
/goes to take a look on the torture devices he keeps for sucking designers and other programing stuff.... |
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| Monty |
| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:42 pm |
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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Quote: P.S. Lara Croft isnt a feminist... She woudnt wear such clothing then... or at least some more...
I wasn't suggesting she was. I imagine people don't play those games to have their views on sexuality challenged; it would be fun for Lara to take a break and give some critique on controversial gender issues. I would think it kinda cool to see a female game character with a bit of a belly on her; not because I’m some weird fetish feeder but it would just give such a new perspective.
The heroine herself provides an interesting case study. In a sort of Russ Meyers sort of way http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ysVhlAfVqIA she demonstrates all sorts of themes of domination. In many ways she is unattainable and this greatly adds to her sexual appeal. Anyone think they can be her man: Anyone think they could take her in a fight?
Any women here have any thoughts on this?
Might be an idea to start a new thread. |
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| Wildbluesun |
| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:43 am |
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 4266
Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
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My thought, as a 15 year old, teenaged, sort of hybrid not-really-woman-not-really-girl -
I've never played Tomb Raider. D=
But I do feel that video games objectify women to a ridiculous degree, and that female characters usually have much more emphasis on their role as females rather than characters.
I mean, there's nothing wrong - in principle - with having a sexy woman in a game, but it needs to be balanced with an appreciation of women as people.
I could be making some inaccurate assumptions, though, I don't really play mainstream games. |
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| Mayar |
| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:52 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1042
Location: On the Forum, adding his Mustard to anything in his interest (no art or anything that may offend me)
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Well... There are movies and games and series and the s´rest of the stuff, which show woman as a stupid sextoy...
Well, also some stories are really good for us, man... We have fun on them...
But mostly, i hate woman being decreased.... Far Cry doesnt decrease them... they are eqvivalent partners...
THINK ABOUT IT!!! |
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