top_image
Author Message

<  News & gossip  ~  War & games

Moogie
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 776
And yet Bush sits there in his oval office saying "God talks to me"...
View user's profile Send private message
Michael
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
Jay wrote:
Yup, the roman catholic church in particular altered much of the Christian scriptures to fit their own agendas.

Or the politicians abused the religion for their own purposes. These things are hard to tell apart. Politics and religion had their own agendas but they collaborated for mutual benefit.
I refuse to paint a picture of the Catholic church as only an aggressive political force. It has always been much more than that. A patron for some of the most amazing artwork, to name one thing. Or an educator of common people, to name another.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Michael
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:20 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
Moogie wrote:
And yet Bush sits there in his oval office saying "God talks to me"...

And "Christian Democrats" are one of the more powerful political movements in Europe...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jay
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 36 Location: Australia
Michael wrote:
Or the politicians abused the religion for their own purposes. These things are hard to tell apart.
Yes thats my point and the reason for the church/state laws I just mentioned. Don't misjudge me, I still attend the Chaplin's service although I'm an atheist and I wouldn't bother to study about roman catholicism if I hated it.

Quote:
I refuse to paint a picture of the Catholic church as only an aggressive political force.

No one asked you to, but its defiantly a bad idea to defend the christians and catholics that have abused their positions in the name of such religions.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lyrak
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 1139 Location: Some Ohio Cornfield
Tinfoil - Thanks for the links! Smile

Moogie - The idea of the universe as a computer interests me too, largely because lately I have begun to see the original creator-god as more of a programmer than a ruler. A programmer sets the basic rules for how the program will operate, what can and can't be done (ie: the laws of physics, evolution, etc etc), but does not need to be present to make all these things happen once the program has started. Programs can even reproduce themselves like the creatures here on earth - self-propagating viruses being the easiest example, though a rather malicious one (then again, think of humans and locusts and... well, yeah LOL). The code can be edited now and then to fix bugs, but a complete overhaul usually means it's considered a different project (omg what if the earth is stil in beta? hoshit no wonder we're all screwy).

But it's more meant to be analogy than literal. Because I see "god" as something that set things into motion, but does not need to dictate everything that happens. Within the program is some coding that allows it to write more code on and destroy obsolete code (evolution and extinction).... well, my analogy probably sucks with me trying to explain it. It's easier when I yammer about it to my boyfriend because he's a software dev, and can fill in the gaps where I don't know a thing about programming. Just, the more he tells me about programming and the more I think about how the universe works, the more that analogy keeps clicking as sensible to me. lol
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Moogie
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 776
Quote:
The code can be edited now and then to fix bugs, but a complete overhaul usually means it's considered a different project (omg what if the earth is stil in beta? hoshit no wonder we're all screwy).


I hope there's not going to be a wipe...
View user's profile Send private message
Lyrak
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 1139 Location: Some Ohio Cornfield
Moogie wrote:
Quote:
The code can be edited now and then to fix bugs, but a complete overhaul usually means it's considered a different project (omg what if the earth is stil in beta? hoshit no wonder we're all screwy).


I hope there's not going to be a wipe...


Apocalypse baby! XD

Hm... wonder if the dinosaurs were a hard drive crash?

"Dammit mommmm I told you I needed a new computer! I made these awesome lizards and NOW look what happened!!!!"
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
(At times I might cut bits of your posts to try and keep this thing's length down.)

Quote:
And second of all, you won't worship God all day in Heaven, you will be with Him, but in wonderful, endless Heaven you will do whatever you would like to do.


I'm having a problem with this word "will". How do you know?

Quote:
Living on Earth (or the "Bad Place") isn't ONLY based about worshipping God, but that's a part of it. ANd you definitely want to go to the Good Place, which is Heaven, so you pray to God, get to know him and his son, follow his teachings as you live life, die, and are reborn in Heaven, which we can't even how amazing it really is.


That's assuming that I think heaven exists. Which I don't. And even if I did, I don't think that praying is a necessity of getting there.

Quote:
Not true!! You don't just wait to die. You worship and love your God and His son Jesus Christ as you accomplish things in life, sure, you do all of this while waiting for Heaven, and then you hopefully go there! You don't just sit around waiting to die.


But if you're waiting for heaven then you're waiting to die, because heaven can only be attained though death. Obviously you don't just sit around, but looking forward to death, actually thinking "won't dying be nice, then I'll get to go to heaven"...

Quote:
God? "Personality transplant"? I'm going to try and help you get back on the right track.... that's why it has two whole readings to itself!


See the Book of Page Five, Chapter Moogie's Second Post.

Quote:
You can't compare God, Adam and Eve, and God's perfect creation, to a mother and taking something she didn't want her child to take, out of his/her reach, because we're talking God here. The Heavenly Father who make a perfect creation and expected Adam and Eve to obey him... (he was right)... Then God didn't test their boundaries, but Satan, who took the form of a serpent, did. They ate the fruit, sinned, and shattered God's perfect creation forever. God didn't stop them because he gave them free will to do whatever they wanted.


Why not? God is "our father". God didn't test their boundaries, Adam and Eve did. God gave them boundaries; Adam and Eve broke them, as humans are wont to do. So God said "You terrible people! You shall be PUNISHED!". He didn't offer second chances, he didn't offer explanations, he just punished.

Quote:
The story of Adam and Eve is NOT a terrible story.


OK, I thought about it some more, and I came up with the idea of absolute trust and faith, and how that could be a good thing. But still...I think that God's reaction to Adam and Eve eating the fruit was totally overboard.

Quote:
That is a SIN to say that you would worship another God. (And various other Satan/sinner rantings.)

Quote:
That was not me saying it.


Yes it was. Your fingers on the keyboard, your words in your head; just because the preacher influenced you doesn't mean it wasn't you.

Like even if you have a gun pressed against your head, everything you do you do out of your own free will. Unless you are being physically forced, then everything anyone does is their fault, their responsiblity, and them.

If you kill your kid with a knife to your throat, then it was in you to kill your kid, knife or no knife.
_____________

OK, seeing as I'm also a strong atheist, I think I'll run down why.

When I was young (as I book a read recently put it, balls-high to a grasshopper) I was quite a lonely kid, and I used to get a lot of comfort from the thought that god was watching over me. Religion (Roman Catholicism) was really important to me; I liked thinking that if I was ever in real trouble, God would help me out of it.

When I was older and changed schools I was an even more lonely kid; and it was worse, because I could see everyone around me forming into groups of friends, and I was totally lost with no idea what to do. (I used to hang around with boys and was in an all-girls school, so the culture was totally different.) Not only was my social life really effed up, my mum was training to be a teacher and really stressed out, without much time for anything but being a teacher-in-training, and my dad was working really hard on MiFID (or something else FSA-ish) and my brother...well, I have no memories of my brother from that period.

Oh yes, and for the first time in my life I wasn't going to school with a cousin/sibling, so I didn't have that to fall back on.

In short, I was in real trouble. And I prayed and looked and listened for a god, I pleaded and cried and searched for a god, and there was...nothing. Just a void. And however many words I threw into it, I never heard the echo; I never got anything back. No voice, no hand, not even a feeling or a happy dream or waking up in the morning with a sudden feeling of hope. I just got worse and worse until I snapped (ran away because I couldn't face all the people anymore) and had to be counselled. =/

The way I see it...either god doesn't exist, or god betrayed me. When I was pootling along perfectly happy in my own little anti-social world he was happy to let me feel supported and watched-over. But when I was asking for his help he didn't give it to me.

If god loves me, he has a funny way of showing it.
______________

Strings theory yay! I watched a really long, really interesting TV programme on that once, it's lived in my head ever since. But strings theory is just too mind-blowingly complex to make sense to me. When I'm older I'd really really like to research stuff like this more, go back to the obsessive fact-book-reading I used to do...but at the moment I spend most of my time at school learning (apart from the times I'm off-task and writing snippets of dialogue XD) and about half of my time at home doing homework. So I'm all learned out.

Quote:
"Dammit mommmm I told you I needed a new computer! I made these awesome lizards and NOW look what happened!!!!"


Laughing
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lyrak
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 1139 Location: Some Ohio Cornfield
Wildbluesun wrote:

Strings theory yay! I watched a really long, really interesting TV programme on that once, it's lived in my head ever since. But strings theory is just too mind-blowingly complex to make sense to me. When I'm older I'd really really like to research stuff like this more, go back to the obsessive fact-book-reading I used to do...but at the moment I spend most of my time at school learning (apart from the times I'm off-task and writing snippets of dialogue XD) and about half of my time at home doing homework. So I'm all learned out.


I know that burnt-out feeling. Man, it took me forever to just plain read for fun even after I finally got done with schooling (way too much dull reading in college... and I got to pay like $500 a quarter for my textbooks yay!).

But I kinda find the string theory interesting, and I'm starting to nose into quantum theory. It's kinda weird to me... light is considered a particle, but it's also got wavelength, implying, well, vibration. Something about that utterly fascinates me.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sarah
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:59 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 1135 Location: Standing amidst the glowing fireflies in the dim twilight.
I've alot to say to what you all were talking about but I won't say it. It'll start a whole new three pages.
View user's profile Send private message
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Light has an identity crisis. -.- Just make yourself sound smart by saying it's made of photons.
______________

Erm...say it anyway? =/

People can always skip over your post if they don't want to read it. Or you can start a new thread specifically for the religious side of this conversation.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jay
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:56 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 36 Location: Australia
Wildbluesun wrote:
People can always skip over your post if they don't want to read it. Or you can start a new thread specifically for the religious side of this conversation.

Good idea. A mod may also want move the last few pages. Arrow
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wildbluesun
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4266 Location: London, Land of Tea and Top Hats
Is that possible? =/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jay
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 36 Location: Australia
lol. It depends on the forum software, I guess its not important really but we went way off topic. Smile
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lyrak
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 1139 Location: Some Ohio Cornfield
Jay wrote:
lol. It depends on the forum software, I guess its not important really but we went way off topic. Smile


When do we NOT go way off topic? XDD
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Page 6 of 7
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum