top_image
Author Message

<  Fatale  ~  Sofia Coppola had a similar notion.

Auriea
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 454 Location: at your fingertips
For those confused by the "anachronisms" on Salome's terrace:



" In one scene while Marie Antoinette is getting ready, a pair of blue Converse tennis shoes are visible in the scene. Sofia Coppola has stated in interviews that the shoes were purposely put in the shot to portray Marie-Antoinette as a typical teenage girl, despite the time she lived in. "
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0422720/trivia

I had no idea... but there it is! Wink
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shojakka
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:45 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Nov 2009 Posts: 148 Location: RI, USA (teehee, acronyms)
Smile that's interesting, never would've noticed that myself
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
K
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 19
Right, it is quite clear what is meant by these anachronisms. But I see two problems:

1. Storytellers use "distancing" as a means of better embedding the audience/readers/etc. into the story - this is why fairy tales happen once upon a time, behind seven seas, far away from here and now. If you make an experiment and while reading a fairy tale to a kid you start to insert small details "connecting" the child with the story, quite often you will hear a loud and quick protest (basically, I believe, because the "distancing" trick allows kids to follow closely the story while still feeling safe). I understand that you purposedly break the "distancing" in Fatale exactly to obtain this effect of insecurity. But, after all, does not the story suffer too much from it? Perhaps this is just a matter of proportions - some contradictions cannot be really avoided (there was similar "conflict of interests" in "The Path" where you wanted at the same time to make your characters archetypal and make the player empathize with them - but human beings do not have much experience with empathizing with archetypes, it is not that easy to meet them on the streets these days...).

2. Did I notice correctly that all anachronisms in Fatale concentrate around Salome? It seems to suggest that her status differs from that of other characters, making others just ancient requisites in her play. While I understand that, like in Wilde's text, you made Salome much more autonomous than in the Gospel descriptions, I found this disproportion unclear and distracting.

Anyway, after obligatory complaining (Polish people are born complainers!) I must say that I liked Fatale a lot (first I wanted to write "enjoyed" but this wording seems a bit unappropriate to me)! I just hoped I would like it more! Wink
View user's profile Send private message
Michael
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
The entire scene revolves around Salomé. That's probably why everything sort of leads to her. We didn't do it on purpose, exactly. But it seems like a natural result of dealing with this story.

In my eyes, the anachronisms are in fact the references to old times: the orientalist clothing and furniture, the throne, the sword, etc. In my view, the matches, the iPod, the sneakers, etc, are parts of the real time in which Fatale takes places. All the rest is an illusion. In one of my interpretations, this girl is not Salomé at all. You're just tricked into thinking that she is. I wanted to expose and explore some of the orientalism that comes so "natural" to Westerners, especially within the context of the contemporary tension between the Middle East and the West, and also between spiritual and military ideologies. Maybe there's a clue in the story of Salomé that can help us unravel and understand this complex situation.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
K
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 19
We have made a long way from "Ex Oriente Lux" to today's suspicions and prejudices, indeed. But perhaps Kipling was right saying that "East is East, and West is West, and never the two shall meet". Maybe the East that Westerners can accept and appreciate necessarily is not the true East - but isn't that the case whenever we meet the Other?

I believe there is no end to otherness, just because it is the very human nature that needs and creates it. I am afraid that the East and the West may meet - in the sense Kipling meant - only by annihilating each other, be it war or globalization. The latter may erase some differences (for example geographic ones) but it is just a matter of time before we replace them with some new exoticism and the whole (hi)story repeats.

So, I am quite sceptical about your idea of "Salome" helping to demystify the East. As all crooks know, people are cheated because they want to be cheated, this way or another.
View user's profile Send private message
Donna
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 98
K wrote:
So, I am quite sceptical about your idea of "Salome" helping to demystify the East.


I don't think Michaël meant to "demystify" the East, but rather explore the differences and what is it that makes them 'different'. Is the girl from East because she wears a gorgeous headdress and an intricate outfit? Is she Western because she owns an iPod and a box of matches? Does it even matter? They are both cliches from the modern world. Though it is very interesting to see the two worlds collide in such an unique way.
View user's profile Send private message
K
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 19
Donna, OK. I would just consider what you wrote to be a part of demystification I meant. Smile And I think that, in principle, while people may realize that some differences are illusoric they still long for these differences to exist. The same way most people react to an illusionist show.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Site Administrator Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 8065 Location: Gent, Belgium
I don't like to be accused of demystification. Smile
But I don't mind a bit of re-mystification. Smile

I just thought the story of Salomé might give us an interesting framework to think about contemporary issues in the same region. Framework, or background. Not necessary metaphor or explanation.

I don't mind orientalism, really. Or occidentalism (as seen in many Japanese videogames for instance). I find it amusing and it often says more about the artist than about his subject. But most of all, I find it wonderful that we can be inspired by things that we don't really understand.

Orientalism, or any other method of identifying a group of people as "other" only becomes a problem when it leads to violent conflict. And I do feel that this is happening today in contemporary media, especially concerning the so-called "war on terror". Western media are very quick to point out how different Islam and Arabic and Persian cultures are, and very slow to recognize the similarities and our common ancestry.

But ultimately neither similarity nor dissimilarity should provoke friendship or antagonism. I think it is very healthy to be interested in what is different. We can learn a lot from "the other". And I don't think we need to understand him for that. We just need to respect him.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
K
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:37 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 19
Quote:
I don't like to be accused of demystification.


As you wish! Although you were only a suspect, so far. Wink

I agree with you. But I feel that I am much less optimistic: "the other" too easily becomes "an alien", especially when he lives on the same street (this is why distancing makes him much more attractive).
View user's profile Send private message
Donna
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 98
It is true that "the other" becomes almost an alien far too often. People seem to prefer war over peace, somehow. However, I agree with Michaël that we don't need to deconstruct and 'demystify' something in order to accept it. Learn the differences, appreciate them for what they are... in the end they might not be that different after all. It can be mystification (of what we know) and demystification (of 'the other') in the end.
View user's profile Send private message

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Page 1 of 1
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum