Comments on: The game barrel http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/ Auriea Harvey & Michaël Samyn telling tales of Tale of Tales Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:57:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Ben http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28123 Ben Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:36:06 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28123 Oh btw Jenova great job on flOw and good luck in the future with Flower. I really appreciate the direction the art is taking, along with the gameplay, and that barrel metaphor is a pretty good one, still reminds me of Buddhism :-) Oh btw Jenova great job on flOw and good luck in the future with Flower.

I really appreciate the direction the art is taking, along with the gameplay, and that barrel metaphor is a pretty good one, still reminds me of Buddhism :-)

]]> By: Ben http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28122 Ben Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:29:54 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28122 sounds good to me Jenova. Thanks for the insight! sounds good to me Jenova. Thanks for the insight!

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28108 Michaël Samyn Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:35:21 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28108 Thank you! :) Thank you! :)

]]> By: Jenova Chen http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28107 Jenova Chen Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:29:45 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28107 Hi everyone, I'm glad that the first thing I do on my birthday is to talk about game making here :) Wonderful start! The metaphor of a water barrel is not originated from me but one of my film school professors. Of course when he used the metaphor, he applied it to film and divided aspects of film into graphics, sound, script, acting and so on. I agree with Ben, "Art Direction" or "Visual" is more suitable than "Graphics" among gamers since people consider graphics more about frame rate or pixel resolutions when attached to video games. The barrel metaphor is just a vessel to communicate an idea. And metaphor is rarely scientifically accurate. Most mystic stories are metaphors, when people take those stories seriously, they can easily poke holes on it. I can make so many false cases on the barrel metaphor too. But that's not the point. I think we all get the rough idea that a game's overall quality ties to all aspects of the development. The final game experience would benefit if you keep an eye on the "whole" rather than focusing only on one aspect, say "frame rate" or "# of enemies". Unfortunately, people can pick up flaws much faster than realizing the perfectness of an object. That's why I felt the short piece of wood and water leaking barrel's a good metaphor to share. :) As to the conversation about Gameplay vs Graphics. I don't have an opinion on who's more important, we need burgers but vegetable as well. Maybe you are a vegetarian, but the world market would be happier if there are meat for those who are not vegetarians. I think I used too many metaphors today... Hi everyone, I’m glad that the first thing I do on my birthday is to talk about game making here :) Wonderful start!

The metaphor of a water barrel is not originated from me but one of my film school professors. Of course when he used the metaphor, he applied it to film and divided aspects of film into graphics, sound, script, acting and so on. I agree with Ben, “Art Direction” or “Visual” is more suitable than “Graphics” among gamers since people consider graphics more about frame rate or pixel resolutions when attached to video games.

The barrel metaphor is just a vessel to communicate an idea. And metaphor is rarely scientifically accurate. Most mystic stories are metaphors, when people take those stories seriously, they can easily poke holes on it. I can make so many false cases on the barrel metaphor too. But that’s not the point.

I think we all get the rough idea that a game’s overall quality ties to all aspects of the development. The final game experience would benefit if you keep an eye on the “whole” rather than focusing only on one aspect, say “frame rate” or “# of enemies”. Unfortunately, people can pick up flaws much faster than realizing the perfectness of an object. That’s why I felt the short piece of wood and water leaking barrel’s a good metaphor to share. :)

As to the conversation about Gameplay vs Graphics. I don’t have an opinion on who’s more important, we need burgers but vegetable as well. Maybe you are a vegetarian, but the world market would be happier if there are meat for those who are not vegetarians. I think I used too many metaphors today…

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28106 Michaël Samyn Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:42:00 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28106 I wonder what Jenova Chen thinks... I wonder what Jenova Chen thinks…

]]> By: axcho http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28105 axcho Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:22:38 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28105 Michael, I also found that your last two comments really clarified your meaning, thank you. Interesting point. Michael, I also found that your last two comments really clarified your meaning, thank you. Interesting point.

]]> By: Zaphos http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28052 Zaphos Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:48:50 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28052 I still think I personally have trouble knowing when the components of a game have reached equal quality (and perhaps this is just my own shortcoming) but I do think I understand what you are getting at much better now! Thanks for the explanation :) I still think I personally have trouble knowing when the components of a game have reached equal quality (and perhaps this is just my own shortcoming) but I do think I understand what you are getting at much better now! Thanks for the explanation :)

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28026 Michaël Samyn Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:18:23 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28026 And the reason why I think this is very relevant is that I believe that many people, even now, play games as if they <I>were</I> some form of art! Only the core audience still thinks of them as (pure) games. And the reason why I think this is very relevant is that I believe that many people, even now, play games as if they were some form of art! Only the core audience still thinks of them as (pure) games.

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28025 Michaël Samyn Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:15:32 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28025 You have a good point, Zaphos. But only in as far as computer games are considered games or toys. If you are looking at them as mature media experiences, then I think the barrel metaphor does hold water (pardon the pun). Sudoku and chess don't even belong in this category and Unreal only in so far as its narrative aspect. Even Myst is a border case because its puzzles are very hard and abstract. In fact, and this may have been what Mr Chen was ultimately getting at, most current computer games don't belong in this category and the barrel metaphor is perhaps an ideal to strive for in an attempt to grow for electronic games to a new art form. You have a good point, Zaphos. But only in as far as computer games are considered games or toys. If you are looking at them as mature media experiences, then I think the barrel metaphor does hold water (pardon the pun). Sudoku and chess don’t even belong in this category and Unreal only in so far as its narrative aspect. Even Myst is a border case because its puzzles are very hard and abstract. In fact, and this may have been what Mr Chen was ultimately getting at, most current computer games don’t belong in this category and the barrel metaphor is perhaps an ideal to strive for in an attempt to grow for electronic games to a new art form.

]]> By: Zaphos http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/09/26/the-game-barrel/#comment-28018 Zaphos Mon, 06 Oct 2008 02:14:14 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/?p=493#comment-28018 Ah hehe, sorry, I hadn't thought too hard about the sandwich metaphor; didn't mean "meat" to correspond to "the important part" really ... I see how that came across weird now. Yeah, graphics can definitely also be the meat :) Ah hehe, sorry, I hadn’t thought too hard about the sandwich metaphor; didn’t mean “meat” to correspond to “the important part” really … I see how that came across weird now. Yeah, graphics can definitely also be the meat :)

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