Comments on: Emotions and art in games http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/ Auriea Harvey & Michaël Samyn telling tales of Tale of Tales Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:18:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Tj'ièn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18511 Tj'ièn Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:43:28 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18511 <i>"Does interactivity stand in the way of depth, of thoughtfulness?"</i> I have to agree with Dick that thoughtfullness and depth are all about reflection. Reflection is questioning. If I was looking at a painting and asking myself questions about it, such as "why does this painting exist?" Or, "what does it try to tell me?" Then I'm 'thoughtfully' searching for depth, for reason, answers. Now, interactivity <b>could</b> let me answer those questions, or at least pursue them. And if it did, would this mean less depth or more depth? Would this mean more art or less art? Possesing a satisfying answer stops the questioning. So, if interactivity leads to answers, then interactivity stands in the way. But what if interactivity satisfied one question but generated two more? Or if it doesn't satisfied any questions, only raises more and more? Surely the interactivity adds depth and thoughtfulness in that in case, maybe to a point that only 'art experts' can enjoy it...? “Does interactivity stand in the way of depth, of thoughtfulness?”

I have to agree with Dick that thoughtfullness and depth are all about reflection. Reflection is questioning.

If I was looking at a painting and asking myself questions about it, such as “why does this painting exist?” Or, “what does it try to tell me?” Then I’m ‘thoughtfully’ searching for depth, for reason, answers.

Now, interactivity could let me answer those questions, or at least pursue them. And if it did, would this mean less depth or more depth? Would this mean more art or less art?

Possesing a satisfying answer stops the questioning.

So, if interactivity leads to answers, then interactivity stands in the way. But what if interactivity satisfied one question but generated two more? Or if it doesn’t satisfied any questions, only raises more and more? Surely the interactivity adds depth and thoughtfulness in that in case, maybe to a point that only ‘art experts’ can enjoy it…?

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18129 Michaël Samyn Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:27:46 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18129 Indeed. Fascinating game! We've been communicating with Ice Pick Lodge, the developers, and thinking about featuring them on this blog. Because they deserve more attention (in the West). Glad to see Rock Paper Shotgun is giving them some! Indeed. Fascinating game!
We’ve been communicating with Ice Pick Lodge, the developers, and thinking about featuring them on this blog. Because they deserve more attention (in the West). Glad to see Rock Paper Shotgun is giving them some!

]]> By: Reveling John http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18116 Reveling John Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:19:12 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-18116 Pathologic http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1517 Pathologic

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1517

]]> By: Ben Sironko http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17969 Ben Sironko Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:56:53 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17969 correction, every visceral movie is NOT low-brow, blockbuster quality. correction, every visceral movie is NOT low-brow, blockbuster quality.

]]> By: Ben Sironko http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17968 Ben Sironko Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:55:37 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17968 Games are different so who says they shouldn't be more primal in their emotional approach. You guys seem to be talking about reflection as if it is necessary for art. Believe it or not but not every visceral movie is low-brow, blockbuster quality. Games are different so who says they shouldn’t be more primal in their emotional approach. You guys seem to be talking about reflection as if it is necessary for art. Believe it or not but not every visceral movie is low-brow, blockbuster quality.

]]> By: Kumiko http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17916 Kumiko Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:55:27 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17916 Michaël, I believe I misunderstood you then. When you said "grab you by the throat" I thought you were referring to a strong emotion that develops suddenly due to a sudden event over emotions that developed over time. Anyway, "Are you saying that interactivity increases the depth of the experience of an otherwise banal story, increases the breadth of its meaning?" Yes, I suppose you could say that. Michaël, I believe I misunderstood you then. When you said “grab you by the throat” I thought you were referring to a strong emotion that develops suddenly due to a sudden event over emotions that developed over time.

Anyway, “Are you saying that interactivity increases the depth of the experience of an otherwise banal story, increases the breadth of its meaning?”

Yes, I suppose you could say that.

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17898 Michaël Samyn Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:09:54 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17898 You make it sound like games are the ultimate propaganda or brainwashing tool, Corbin. ;) How do you see the part of the player in all this? Should art not be about this player, rather than about the author? You make it sound like games are the ultimate propaganda or brainwashing tool, Corbin. ;)

How do you see the part of the player in all this? Should art not be about this player, rather than about the author?

]]> By: Corbin Supak http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17895 Corbin Supak Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:54:31 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17895 What does reflection merit? It's but a particular form. Games are a medium, and its principles are trying to be understood. They will be similar to other forms, yet plenty will be unique. It seems obvious that there is a place for games every bit as much as cinema, music, theatre, etc. How games work, in particular, is still a bit fuzzy, but the idea I latch onto the best is that of the creation of a system, with the player goal being 'complete understanding of the system'. In this act of learning a system, so much can be communicated. It's not just a fact, emotion, or suggestion that can be evoked, but a whole 'system' of thinking - about any question the artist cares to posit. This systemic level of suggestion or communication is perhaps more powerful than cinema's 'storyline' or visual art's 'depiction', though each can be powerful. Being able to craft systemic thinking and action on the audience's part is powerful on the level of cultish recruitment or the most advanced participatory theatre. There's huge potential to not just communicate, but reshape perspective, and I think artists need to be two steps ahead of commerce or government in this regard. Also, the audience is, already, all modern people, not just gamers. The idea of 'experience design' and 'media pervasiveness' is everyday. Allof us are immersed in a web of primitively organized media systems. These can and will get quite a bit more organized in a flash, and the result will be not unlike what we call 'games.' Many will just call it 'culture' or 'network.' A screen (game) is a screen (net), and a character (you) is a character (you). What does reflection merit? It’s but a particular form. Games are a medium, and its principles are trying to be understood. They will be similar to other forms, yet plenty will be unique. It seems obvious that there is a place for games every bit as much as cinema, music, theatre, etc.

How games work, in particular, is still a bit fuzzy, but the idea I latch onto the best is that of the creation of a system, with the player goal being ‘complete understanding of the system’. In this act of learning a system, so much can be communicated. It’s not just a fact, emotion, or suggestion that can be evoked, but a whole ’system’ of thinking - about any question the artist cares to posit. This systemic level of suggestion or communication is perhaps more powerful than cinema’s ’storyline’ or visual art’s ‘depiction’, though each can be powerful.

Being able to craft systemic thinking and action on the audience’s part is powerful on the level of cultish recruitment or the most advanced participatory theatre. There’s huge potential to not just communicate, but reshape perspective, and I think artists need to be two steps ahead of commerce or government in this regard.

Also, the audience is, already, all modern people, not just gamers. The idea of ‘experience design’ and ‘media pervasiveness’ is everyday. Allof us are immersed in a web of primitively organized media systems. These can and will get quite a bit more organized in a flash, and the result will be not unlike what we call ‘games.’ Many will just call it ‘culture’ or ‘network.’ A screen (game) is a screen (net), and a character (you) is a character (you).

]]> By: alvin http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17890 alvin Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:35:12 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17890 have some friends in the art game. Perhaps I can be of some help. ... have some friends in the art game. Perhaps I can be of some help. …

]]> By: Michaël Samyn http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17883 Michaël Samyn Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:34:39 +0000 http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/04/05/emotions-and-art-in-games/#comment-17883 Kumiko, the games that you mention are, in my opinion, examples of games that "grab you by the throat" rather than allow for, stimulate or even require reflection. If the stories in those games were used in movies, the movies would be considered light-hearted pop-corn entertainment. Are you saying that interactivity increases the depth of the experience of an otherwise banal story, increases the breadth of its meaning? Kumiko, the games that you mention are, in my opinion, examples of games that “grab you by the throat” rather than allow for, stimulate or even require reflection. If the stories in those games were used in movies, the movies would be considered light-hearted pop-corn entertainment. Are you saying that interactivity increases the depth of the experience of an otherwise banal story, increases the breadth of its meaning?

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