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	<title>Comments on: Hardcore reviews of softcore games</title>
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	<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/</link>
	<description>Auriea Harvey &#038; Michaël Samyn telling tales of Tale of Tales</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Catharsis</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16645</link>
		<dc:creator>Catharsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16645</guid>
		<description>To begin,
I read your critical review of half-life 2, and as one who considers himself a "hardcore" gamer, I find that I couldn't agree with this statement more:
"&lt;i&gt;The game is designed in such a way that there is hardly ever any time for reflection on or enjoyment of the environment and the story. It relentlessly pushes you on and never leaves you alone. Up to the unavoidable point where it all becomes very predictable and therefor tedious and annoying and ultimately boring. Half Life 2 is basically one long path with obstructions in your way.&lt;/i&gt;

I found myself very disappointed with half-life 2 for this exact reason. It created such an amazing environment/world only to funnel you through it with little to no regard for this intriguing landscape that absolutely promoted a desire to just wonder about. To see what it had to offer (though being a gamer, I did want the opportunity to also experience relative engagements/combat throughout my experience as well). All I could think of was the missed potential in that game, and it quite honestly broke my heart. I still can't imagine why it was received so well in the modern gamer community, as even the character-character interaction was not only forced but in a way that detracted from what little enjoyment might have been left in the game.

I think it is a very difficult in today's game development industry to balance production time with perceived entertainment values (and consequently sale numbers). And the easiest way to get entertainment value is to squeeze out a more or less "intense" but brief action-packed experience with about as much interaction or reflection towards strategy/thoughtfullness towards achieving one's goals as any given diehard movie. 

I hate that most games these days have become nothing more than cheap action flicks which - though undeniably beautiful and oft times convincing - offer no real distinction from game to game outside of when/where it's happening, along with tons of HUD candy/minor gameplay gadgets, or widgets to distinguish a game as NEW and Genre Defying! You're basically watching what game developers have set before you unfold at your desktop in what does appear to nothing short of brief distraction. 

However I'm not sure how much less distraction or escapism we're talking about when enveloping ourselves in a game of exploration and immersion into the environment than from jumping into the combat suit of any given generic space marine and saving the galaxy in a few short hours of selected combat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To begin,<br />
I read your critical review of half-life 2, and as one who considers himself a &#8220;hardcore&#8221; gamer, I find that I couldn&#8217;t agree with this statement more:<br />
&#8220;<i>The game is designed in such a way that there is hardly ever any time for reflection on or enjoyment of the environment and the story. It relentlessly pushes you on and never leaves you alone. Up to the unavoidable point where it all becomes very predictable and therefor tedious and annoying and ultimately boring. Half Life 2 is basically one long path with obstructions in your way.</i></p>
<p>I found myself very disappointed with half-life 2 for this exact reason. It created such an amazing environment/world only to funnel you through it with little to no regard for this intriguing landscape that absolutely promoted a desire to just wonder about. To see what it had to offer (though being a gamer, I did want the opportunity to also experience relative engagements/combat throughout my experience as well). All I could think of was the missed potential in that game, and it quite honestly broke my heart. I still can&#8217;t imagine why it was received so well in the modern gamer community, as even the character-character interaction was not only forced but in a way that detracted from what little enjoyment might have been left in the game.</p>
<p>I think it is a very difficult in today&#8217;s game development industry to balance production time with perceived entertainment values (and consequently sale numbers). And the easiest way to get entertainment value is to squeeze out a more or less &#8220;intense&#8221; but brief action-packed experience with about as much interaction or reflection towards strategy/thoughtfullness towards achieving one&#8217;s goals as any given diehard movie. </p>
<p>I hate that most games these days have become nothing more than cheap action flicks which - though undeniably beautiful and oft times convincing - offer no real distinction from game to game outside of when/where it&#8217;s happening, along with tons of HUD candy/minor gameplay gadgets, or widgets to distinguish a game as NEW and Genre Defying! You&#8217;re basically watching what game developers have set before you unfold at your desktop in what does appear to nothing short of brief distraction. </p>
<p>However I&#8217;m not sure how much less distraction or escapism we&#8217;re talking about when enveloping ourselves in a game of exploration and immersion into the environment than from jumping into the combat suit of any given generic space marine and saving the galaxy in a few short hours of selected combat.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16639</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16639</guid>
		<description>I detect a certain elitism, perhaps even hostility, in the OP. Conversely, the reaction this garnered was far more so. Even so, I am compelled to point out that hardcore gamers are generally not people who have terrible lives and want to hit themselves over the head with a brick. A fair percentage of humanity enjoys a challenge. Not everyone likes passive entertainment. Now I hear you protesting that Endless Ocean is not passive entertainment, but it is still - as some have mentioned - laid back. I am acquainted with a number of people who never watch television *precisely* because that sort of entertainment, for them, has no appeal. It appears to me that what you really would prefer was if the tastes of others conformed more to yours. 

Also, I would like to make a distinction: There is nothing "hardcore" about playing exclusively shooters and racing games. Sure, it requires some time investment - to achieve the instincts necessary to excel in these games, but the hardcore is the one who always plays a game on max difficulty, the one likes being penalised for failure - the roleplayer and the high-stakes player. Halo 3 is not hardcore. The old Prince of Persia game - where one has to start over upon death, without any checkpoints, or saved games - is hardcore. Diablo II on harcore mode is hardcore. Reviewers cater to the ones with money. Casual gaming has not, until recently, started becoming a significant market. The Übergamers (neither the hardcore nor the casual) are the ones who purchase the games and generate the hype.

I am not certain if I got my point across. I am fully aware of the... disjointedness of my post, and I apologise in advance for any annoyance caused thereby.

And... let us not start a flame war, people. Hmmm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I detect a certain elitism, perhaps even hostility, in the OP. Conversely, the reaction this garnered was far more so. Even so, I am compelled to point out that hardcore gamers are generally not people who have terrible lives and want to hit themselves over the head with a brick. A fair percentage of humanity enjoys a challenge. Not everyone likes passive entertainment. Now I hear you protesting that Endless Ocean is not passive entertainment, but it is still - as some have mentioned - laid back. I am acquainted with a number of people who never watch television *precisely* because that sort of entertainment, for them, has no appeal. It appears to me that what you really would prefer was if the tastes of others conformed more to yours. </p>
<p>Also, I would like to make a distinction: There is nothing &#8220;hardcore&#8221; about playing exclusively shooters and racing games. Sure, it requires some time investment - to achieve the instincts necessary to excel in these games, but the hardcore is the one who always plays a game on max difficulty, the one likes being penalised for failure - the roleplayer and the high-stakes player. Halo 3 is not hardcore. The old Prince of Persia game - where one has to start over upon death, without any checkpoints, or saved games - is hardcore. Diablo II on harcore mode is hardcore. Reviewers cater to the ones with money. Casual gaming has not, until recently, started becoming a significant market. The Übergamers (neither the hardcore nor the casual) are the ones who purchase the games and generate the hype.</p>
<p>I am not certain if I got my point across. I am fully aware of the&#8230; disjointedness of my post, and I apologise in advance for any annoyance caused thereby.</p>
<p>And&#8230; let us not start a flame war, people. Hmmm?</p>
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		<title>By: Michaël Samyn</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16638</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaël Samyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16638</guid>
		<description>I agree, Rumsey. And I apologize. But the reason I brushed this off is that this thread is not about my opinion of Endless Ocean. That's an entirely different topic.

This thread is about the games press. It is not a secret that I am highly critical of the value of socalled hardcore games. One of the things that I dislike about them is that the genre tends to be incredibly myopic. You accuse me for recycling my own ideas. Well, as opposed to the hardcore genre, my recycling at least doesn't cost millions upon millions of Dollars.

It's too easy to dismiss anything that is not a hardcore game as "casual" and to refuse to take it seriously. I can only interpret this reflex as defensive and motivated by fear. That stems me very optimistic. I am sick of the stifling effect that the dominance of the hardcore ethos has on the games industry and culture. As a creator, as a player and even as a human being.

I don't think casual games as such are a valid alternative. But some games, like Endless Ocean, contain elements that I find interesting. And I'm happy to see that many games journalists are not as stubborn or afraid as you or Tom or the Eurogamer journalist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Rumsey. And I apologize. But the reason I brushed this off is that this thread is not about my opinion of Endless Ocean. That&#8217;s an entirely different topic.</p>
<p>This thread is about the games press. It is not a secret that I am highly critical of the value of socalled hardcore games. One of the things that I dislike about them is that the genre tends to be incredibly myopic. You accuse me for recycling my own ideas. Well, as opposed to the hardcore genre, my recycling at least doesn&#8217;t cost millions upon millions of Dollars.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s too easy to dismiss anything that is not a hardcore game as &#8220;casual&#8221; and to refuse to take it seriously. I can only interpret this reflex as defensive and motivated by fear. That stems me very optimistic. I am sick of the stifling effect that the dominance of the hardcore ethos has on the games industry and culture. As a creator, as a player and even as a human being.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think casual games as such are a valid alternative. But some games, like Endless Ocean, contain elements that I find interesting. And I&#8217;m happy to see that many games journalists are not as stubborn or afraid as you or Tom or the Eurogamer journalist.</p>
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		<title>By: rumsey</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16603</link>
		<dc:creator>rumsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16603</guid>
		<description>Oh geez, Michaël, how embarrassing for you.  I think I'll continue to follow this thread of discussion and chime in after you posts to clear things up for you.  Your speech is hardly eloquent and your logic process seems quite methodical, but so slow its bordering on annoying.  Most of your posts are recycled ideas and just reiterations of your previous thought processes, the redundancy is enough to keep anyone from reading all the way through.  Moreover it seems you lack far more perspective than those who have you done you the favor or even acknowledging your article, as you often respond with the &lt;i&gt;same damn ideas&lt;/I&gt; you've already said plenty of damn times, even though said commenters have provided new insight and avenues of thought.
Tom had a new and powerful perspective which you brushed off.  You disagree with him that EO is a passive game, and refuse to expunge on your claim, instead claiming "oh you hardcore gamers just need ur eyez opened! DuH!!! TIS SAD!"

The only sad thing here is your lack or perspective and your inability to communicate effectively with your fellow man.  As such, I'll be providing all new insight and paraphrasing for all your new posts, just so others can get a sense for how close minded you are and how absurdly simple and binary the logic is that goes on in that cramped head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh geez, Michaël, how embarrassing for you.  I think I&#8217;ll continue to follow this thread of discussion and chime in after you posts to clear things up for you.  Your speech is hardly eloquent and your logic process seems quite methodical, but so slow its bordering on annoying.  Most of your posts are recycled ideas and just reiterations of your previous thought processes, the redundancy is enough to keep anyone from reading all the way through.  Moreover it seems you lack far more perspective than those who have you done you the favor or even acknowledging your article, as you often respond with the <i>same damn ideas</i> you&#8217;ve already said plenty of damn times, even though said commenters have provided new insight and avenues of thought.<br />
Tom had a new and powerful perspective which you brushed off.  You disagree with him that EO is a passive game, and refuse to expunge on your claim, instead claiming &#8220;oh you hardcore gamers just need ur eyez opened! DuH!!! TIS SAD!&#8221;</p>
<p>The only sad thing here is your lack or perspective and your inability to communicate effectively with your fellow man.  As such, I&#8217;ll be providing all new insight and paraphrasing for all your new posts, just so others can get a sense for how close minded you are and how absurdly simple and binary the logic is that goes on in that cramped head.</p>
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		<title>By: Michaël Samyn</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16581</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaël Samyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 06:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16581</guid>
		<description>I firmly disagree that Endless Ocean is passive. It simply is interactive in a different way. I understand your point about hardcore gamers only being interested in hardcore games. But I think that is quite a sad situation. And I think it is in part the task of the press to open the eyes and minds of their audience to things that are not exactly what they might expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I firmly disagree that Endless Ocean is passive. It simply is interactive in a different way. I understand your point about hardcore gamers only being interested in hardcore games. But I think that is quite a sad situation. And I think it is in part the task of the press to open the eyes and minds of their audience to things that are not exactly what they might expect.</p>
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		<title>By: Scale of authorship at in-lusio.com</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16575</link>
		<dc:creator>Scale of authorship at in-lusio.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16575</guid>
		<description>[...] latest attempt at answering these questions started at the Tale of tales website. The discussion was actually on a different subject but for me it turned into a discussion about games and toys. I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] latest attempt at answering these questions started at the Tale of tales website. The discussion was actually on a different subject but for me it turned into a discussion about games and toys. I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#124;tom&#124;</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16567</link>
		<dc:creator>&#124;tom&#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16567</guid>
		<description>Not to be overly cynical, but if you read a website which, partially even by your own admission, appeals to hardcore gamers, you can't really complain when it reviews a casual game from a hardcore perspective. If you want a casual review, you read it in non-gaming-specific press, or from a specific casual-gaming or popular media site. Hardcore gamers are going to want to know whether this game is worth purchasing for them, and when they do, they'll go to such a site. I think that personally, hardcore gamers are getting a bit sick of the influx of passive or mundane mediocre games when so much more potential is contained within the platform. If you want passivity then you sit in front of the TV and watch a program, or watch a DVD or read a book or one of the many other passive entertainment forms. The only reason why casual games appeal to the mass audience is because they are essentially non-games, for non-gamers, appealing to an audience that wants the same old stuff presented in a new medium. This isn't what hardcore gamers want, and I think reviews from and for hardcore gamers are going to reflect this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to be overly cynical, but if you read a website which, partially even by your own admission, appeals to hardcore gamers, you can&#8217;t really complain when it reviews a casual game from a hardcore perspective. If you want a casual review, you read it in non-gaming-specific press, or from a specific casual-gaming or popular media site. Hardcore gamers are going to want to know whether this game is worth purchasing for them, and when they do, they&#8217;ll go to such a site. I think that personally, hardcore gamers are getting a bit sick of the influx of passive or mundane mediocre games when so much more potential is contained within the platform. If you want passivity then you sit in front of the TV and watch a program, or watch a DVD or read a book or one of the many other passive entertainment forms. The only reason why casual games appeal to the mass audience is because they are essentially non-games, for non-gamers, appealing to an audience that wants the same old stuff presented in a new medium. This isn&#8217;t what hardcore gamers want, and I think reviews from and for hardcore gamers are going to reflect this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16556</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16556</guid>
		<description>The problem here is the fact that a game like Endless ocean is more like an interactive game you might expect to find on a movie DVD or some similar media. Games, as a rule, are meant to be interactive to the point of requiring thought. And I mean more thought than it takes to walk out of your house and pull your car out of the driveway. 

If someone wanted to simply sit and watch and enjoy fish swimming, or not really engage themselves, they could purcase themselves a fish tank, or even a fish tank screensaver, and be equally engaged. Or, for even less money than the game, they can buy a documentary on oceanic life from the Discovery Channel.

The problem, I think, is that Endless ocean seems less like a game than a parody on the life of a diver. Life is boring, people play games to escape it. Why should we pay money to experience life when we can have it for free?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is the fact that a game like Endless ocean is more like an interactive game you might expect to find on a movie DVD or some similar media. Games, as a rule, are meant to be interactive to the point of requiring thought. And I mean more thought than it takes to walk out of your house and pull your car out of the driveway. </p>
<p>If someone wanted to simply sit and watch and enjoy fish swimming, or not really engage themselves, they could purcase themselves a fish tank, or even a fish tank screensaver, and be equally engaged. Or, for even less money than the game, they can buy a documentary on oceanic life from the Discovery Channel.</p>
<p>The problem, I think, is that Endless ocean seems less like a game than a parody on the life of a diver. Life is boring, people play games to escape it. Why should we pay money to experience life when we can have it for free?</p>
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		<title>By: Michaël Samyn</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16525</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaël Samyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16525</guid>
		<description>I noticed that discrepancy too. Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed that discrepancy too. Interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Manticore</title>
		<link>http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16509</link>
		<dc:creator>Manticore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/01/23/hardcore-reviews-of-softcore-games/#comment-16509</guid>
		<description>Try the German Eurogamer Site.^^
8/10

http://www.eurogamer.de/article.php?article_id=88944</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try the German Eurogamer Site.^^<br />
8/10</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eurogamer.de/article.php?article_id=88944" rel="nofollow">http://www.eurogamer.de/article.php?article_id=88944</a></p>
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